Back in the US I had a brilliant product: a two-part rust effect product. One flask had suspended iron particles, the other was an activator (an oxidizing reagent). You applied the metal suspension to the surface, and after it dried, you added the activator. After some days (or hours, depending on how much activator/iron you used) you got a very realistic rust effect. (It was rust, after all.) You could play around with different reagents to get different colors- after all any acid or hydrogen peroxide would work very well, and produce slightly different mixture of the different iron oxide variants. (Being in Florida, it was also a very viable option to simply leave the model out on the patio… the 100% humidity and high temperature was quite effective rusting anything, anyhow.)
The armor of my orc warrior was done using this method. (In this case the rust effect was used to depict a rotting leather armor; the same product was used on the ground as well to simulate dirt.)
However, you can make your own rust pigments, and quite easily at that.
Simply use scratch brite (metal, of course). Put some steel wool or scratch brite into a cup, add vinegar or peroxide (or any acid of your choice), and stick it somewhere safe, where nobody will disturb it. Let it stand for a month or two, and wait for the liquid to evaporate. (If by the time it evaporates parts of the iron are still unoxidized, simply refill the cup.) You can even experiment: depending on the strength and nature of the oxidizing reagent you use, you will get a slightly different colored mixture of rust particles.
The result will be a brown mess; if you break it up in a pestle you will have finely ground iron oxide, ready to be used. As the orc warrior has demonstrated the pigments have more uses than simply depict rust: they have a nice, brown range of colors which can be used in groundwork, deposits, etc. (Some of the rust I’ve made this was was used to simulate deposits collecting in the nooks and crevices of the T-62 wreck I’m building.)
I was curious how some chipping methods compare, so I did some experiments. Since the old hairspray I used ran out, and I could not get a similar product, I switched to the AK chipping fluid. (Not all hairsprays are the same when it comes to chipping; if you find something that works, stick to it.)
I also wanted to see how the Windex chipping technique works, and what the Mig Ammo washable white paint does. It’s not a comprehensive tutorial by any means, but I hope others find it useful.
There’s a nice summary of the hairspray technique on another blog, so I won’t be taking up much space with it. It essentially works by forming a water soluble layer between two paint layers, which makes a chipping effect once water is applied and slightly macerated with a stiff brush or toothpick. It can be applied to simulate paint chips or worn white wash; I used white in this case. With the AK Interactive product there’s a time factor: the earlier you do the chipping after the paint is dried, the larger the chips are; the longer you wait, the more difficult it becomes to remove the top layer. This can be used for your advantage, as it also allows you to use it in conjunction with the Windex chipping technique.
This is something relatively new. I’ve read about it in the Single Model series (02) by Rinaldi Studio Press. This technique depends on the fact that ammonia dissolves Tamiya (and supposedly similar acrylic) paints. You essentially dissolve the top layer with a 1-3% ammonia solution. (Windex and similar cleaning products contain ammonia; you can even buy ammonia by itself, and it would work just as fine.) The higher the ammonia concentration, the easier you remove the top paint layer, so it’s worth being patient and using less concentrated solutions. I used to use Windex as a solvent and airbrush cleaner; it seems like it’s great for chips as well. The effect is much more subtle than the hairspray technique’s: it produces smaller chips, and the effect is more like rubbed-off paint.
Mig Ammo washable white
It’s essentially a white paint that can be spray painted and then washed off after drying. It does not form chips as it is; it’s more like a whitish translucent overcoat. The paint should not be diluted much (one or two drops of water, tops), as it would spray very dilute. (It took a while to figure out why it behaves like a wash when I sprayed it… The Lowe I did was the test piece, and I had to try three times before I realized I needed to keep the dilution low. It’s quite thick, so some dilution is necessary, but not much.) I’m not sure it stays washable after a prolonged period of time; it probably does.
Onto the test…
So I prepared my trusty Pnz IV mudguards with a green layer of paint, and sealed it with Dullcote. (So that it protects the paint from the ammonia.) The next layer was Tamiya’s flat white.
I divided up the segments, and got working. (I forgot to take a photo before I started to work on the AK Interactive chipping fluid. Imagine it white.)
AK Interactive Chipping fluid
I used a wet brush on the surface, and then gently a toothpick to nick the surface. The nicks were enlarged with a large, relatively stiff wet brush.
The resulting chips are giving a stark contrast between the white and the underlying green.
Mig Ammo Washable White
The paint is very thick and kind of shiny once on the surface (you can see this on the photo). After a little drying period, I used a wet brush with a downward motion to remove the paint. It got dissolved, and smeared over the surface. The residual paint formed an uneven layer over the green paint, making the surface look worn. No chips, but realistic worn effect.
The Windex Chipping method
I prepared a ~2% Ammonia solution using a kitchen cleaning product, and used a brush to wet the surface with it. I waited a minute or two and then gently rubbed the brush against the surface. For a long time nothing seemed to happen, but after a while I got a very nice, realistic chipping effect. It’s an important thing to point out: the effect is very gradual; for a while it really does look like nothing is happening. Some foam appears, but that’s it. Don’t push the brush down (now I’m rapping about modelling), as it might lift up the base layer as well.
You can see the same technique used to recreate rust on the electric mule I built not long ago. The square parts are about 0.5cm long. Unfortunately the photo is not the best (the most interesting part is out of focus), but the effect can still be judged: tiny, minuscule chips and general look of wear-and-tear. Pretty good, I’d say.
AK Interactive Chipping fluid and Windex combined
The fourth section was first treated with the AK Interactive chipping fluid, did the chips, then waited a couple of days. (It was probably close to a week, if I recall correctly.) The next step was to use the Windex method on the same section, forming smaller chips. The effects are subtle next to the large chips, but you can see how the paint rubbed off the edges and other areas sticking out. It also formed very tiny little chips between the larger ones, making the effect a bit more realistic. The Windex effects complements the larger chips of the previous method quite nicely. Due to dissolving the white color, it also deposited some on the green undercoat, making the contrast less pronounced in some areas. (Not all and not evenly.)
So there is it.
I think the washable paint looks good as a very worn winter whitewash on its own. If you use hairspray chipping for whitewash it would also be very useful to tone down the stark contrast between the underlying paint and the white on top.
The Windex method is great for subtle chips, but it also complements the larger hairspray chipping.
This, of course, is not limited to whitewashes; excellent chips can be done using a rust undercolor, or even a variation of the main color. (Green on green chips, camo pattern chips, etc.) Your imagination is the limit.
There are more than one ways to skin a cat, so these are not the definitive methods; there are other ones as well. AK Interactive just came out with a solution that makes any acrylic paint washable; the this opens up a large potential of uses from dust to worn paint. I have ordered it, so when I have some time I’ll see what it can do, and post the results.
(Here’s an imgur album for the photos- they are hopefully larger than the wordpress versions.)
You can find the review I wrote of this model on armorama, and another review of a simplified version of the same kit here. In this last post we’ll finish up the vehicle.
Once the tracks were ready, I painted the sides of the lower hull olive green (Tamiya), then heavily dabbed on a dark brown/black/greenish mix of oil colors to simulate the color of dirty snowmelt; the reference I used was how buses look during the winter after a heavy snow… The same color went onto the road wheels as well, and once everything was dry, I installed the tracks. (I suggest leaving the return roller in a movable state so that you can do small adjustments if the tracks are a bit loose/tight.)
I masked everything with tape (the back of the engine compartment, the top of the fighting compartment, the tracks), and sprayed olive green onto the vehicle. The exact color does not really matter as it will be covered by white-wash (and the wartime “Russian green” was far from a standardized color in any way).
I gave the paint a couple of hours to dry, and covered the model with a semi-gloss varnish to have a surface for the decals to stick to. Since I wanted to go with the unique festive Christmas camo, I decided to use the large red dot decal that goes on top of the superstructure. (In retrospect it would have been better if I added the decal after I applied the whitewash.)
Since the red dot decal needs to conform a somewhat difficult topology (it goes over the fume extractor’s cover, the hatch and the armored observation hatches), it is given in three parts. Normally I would have elected to simply mask the area and spray the color, but since it’s a review I went with the decal option. There are some issues with this option. For one, it’s not going to be easy to pose the hatches open, unless you cut the decal up. (Difficult to do accurately.) The largest part went on relatively well, although the hinges of the crew hatch did present some problems. A generous application of decal setting solution immensely helped, but it was still not easy. I did manage to damage the decal with the brush trying to smooth it out and make it conform the raised details.
The part going over the extractor cover went on fine; the decal part going over the observation hatch, however was not that easy to apply. I could not put it on without forming a small fold at the corner. I trimmed it once the decal dried, and touched it up with some paint. Weathering also will help making these mistakes disappear. The decal is thin and of good quality otherwise; the casting texture is clearly visible underneath. All things considered it’s probably simpler just to mask the circle and paint it on using an airbrush.
Once the decals were dry I applied another layer of varnish in preparation for the whitewash.
I have applied AK Interactive’s chipping fluid slightly diluted with an airbrush for the “hairspray technique”, and once it was dry, I went over with Tamiya’s flat white (also very slightly diluted). It was dry to the touch in about twenty or so minute, so I started on chipping. Wet the surface and with a toothpick I made small nicks on the paint. These were gently extended using a wet brush. As a second round of chipping I waited about a day- enough time for the AK Interactive product to become “less active”. (As you wait, it becomes more and more difficult to create chips.) I’ve prepared an approx 1% ammonia solution using an ammonia containing cleaning product (Windex is fine), and used this over the surface of the model. (Ammonia dissolves Tamiya paints.) With a bit more vigorous brushwork I was able to create smaller, finer chips and scratches. This method (Windex chipping) is very suitable for making subtly worn surfaces, and complements the larger chips created by the “hairspray” technique.
This is the step where I installed the back of the engine compartment. I noticed that the bolt holes are not drilled in, which was odd, since MiniArt was very careful to add other details which would not be visible once the model is completed, so I quickly drilled the holes myself.
Once everything dried, I applied yet another layer of varnish to protect the work so far, and sprayed over a very light “washable white” from Mig. (I’ve tried a lot of off-the-shelf weathering products in this build.) Most of this layer was removed using a wet brush; the purpose applying it was to create a light white, transparent layer over the green paint showing through the whitewash.
After THIS dried, you guessed correctly, yet another layer of varnish was added, and I went on painting the branches, and adding the decals. Which were -for the last time- sealed with varnish.
Once this was all done I dirtied up the chassis a bit using oil paints (some light filters of burned sienna, and blending in small quantities of different shades of brown), adding oil washes, and applying a thick layer of dirty snow slush made from dark browns, black and a tiny bit of green to the lower chassis and the running gear. I added some oil stains to the engine deck and the folded-down armor plate on the back (AK Interactive’s product diluted in white spirit applied in several steps), and some diesel stains to the external tanks (Vallejo’s product- as I said, I stocked up on weathering products lately…)
As a last step I glued the top of the fighting compartment on in an “opened” position, so that the interior is actually visible.
That’s pretty much it.
Overall the building was enjoyable, although I did run into some problems of the kit (and of my own making). Nothing is really deal-breaking; most of the problems can be either fixed or circumvent if you have a little experience in model building. If you like to be challenged -and not because you’re building a dog of a kit- this model will be perfect for you; however I don’t think it’s suitable for beginners. It’s also a considerable investment of time and effort; it is certainly possible to burn out, and just shelve it for a time. If you don’t feel like including much of the interior, go for the “light” version which has less parts and is considerably cheaper, too. My fiancee said I was nuts for building and painting this much detail (and enjoying it), so take my words with a grain of salt. One thing is for sure: I’m proud of this kit, treasure it for the achievement I feel it was building it, and I’m ready to move on to a simpler model (or two) -until the next one. (Which, I suspect, is going to be a T-54 version with over a thousand parts…)
I do some experiments on techniques or modelling products now on then; I might as well share them here. Here’s the previous post about the different media you can suspend your pigments.
I saw these new products mentioned in armorama, and they did look interesting. While I tend to avoid paint/weathering sets, I thought I’d give it a go, since rust is something that is difficult to do, and new methods are always welcome.
I’ve been experimenting with this product for a while now, and here are my thoughts about it.
One thing that is very important is to apply the product to a flat (matte) surface (as in flat paint, although a level surface does not hurt, either). It flows quite freely, and if the surface is a little bit satin it will just flow into the recesses as an ordinary wash would do. This in itself can give you a nice rusty effect, but this is not what we’re looking to achieve here. So: always use it on a flat surface. (Unless you DO want a rust-wash; this is a perfectly good use of this product.)
The standard Tamiya paint is perfect base to use it on, since it is very flat, however the remover solution that comes with the set does seem to attack the paintcoat. If you plan to use the remover, use a very, very, very flat enamel based varnish. Testors Dullcote is just not flat enough in my experience.
Patience is important using this product: you have to wait until the subsequent colors dry, otherwise they just mix into one rust tone. While this is only slightly annoying with brush application, I have to say I would not consider using an airbrush if I want to apply it in several coats. It’s a major pain in the neck setting up everything every hour or so for a one minute spray session, so I think I’ll stick to the brush application for now. I have to say, though, it does spray on very nicely, and you can do some very nice shading with this product.
I ended up applying the pigments starting with the lighter and brighter colors and finishing with the darker colors. Most cases when you have a rusty surface, the darker colors dominate, and you only see patches of bright rust. This order you ensure that only small amount of the yellowish rust will show, and hopefully it’ll result in a more realistic surface. There’s nothing stopping you applying the lighter colors (yellows and oranges) with a detail brush after you applied the base, dark rust color, it’s only my take on this.
The remover does remove the washes after they dried; it really works. (I was a bit curious as the wash dries into a pretty resilient layer.) If you want to selectively remove layers of the pigments, you have to seal the surface with varnish after the individual steps.
Well, it’s mixed. I prefer the whole “do it yourself” school of modelling, so my opinion is a bit colored by this. (I do use products that work much better or simplify things greatly; but I tend to avoid sets that are aimed at specific models… like DAK weathering sets, or 1941 German Uniform Color Modulation Sets.)
Anyhow. This product is essentially pigments suspended in a carrier medium. They are very fine, so you can use an airbrush to apply them. This is definitely a plus. It is water based, so no nasty chemicals there; it’s another great thing about it. On the other hand they don’t really provide you with a magic bullet to produce a heavily rusted tank. It essentially cannot do anything you could not do with some dry pigments, and oil paints.
Well, this has been a long, arduous trip. It was one of those models where you lose inspiration, you make mistakes, and it feels more and more frustrating to spend time on, rather than on a more rewarding project -and not because of any fault of the model itself. It was just one of those builds I guess. I had no clear conception where I want to end up, I made some mistakes, and it felt like a choir trying to push forward. The end result however, was surprisingly nice. So this is the story of the poor, neglected Lowe.
The Löwe was a 90 ton super heavy tank, which was planned -but never built- by Nazi Germany. It was superseded by the even heavier Maus- which actually did get built. Along with the super heavy members of the Entwicklung series, these gigantic tank design programs demonstrate some of the lunacy of the direction WWII tank design took to in Germany during the second half of the war: embarking on even more and more ambitious tank projects in search for a war-winning superweapon, consuming valuable resources and manpower, while the fronts were collapsing all around them. It did give us some nice-looking tank models, though, so there is some silver lining.
Disclaimer: I’ve used my review in Armorama for some of the text.
The plastic parts are well done, apart from some minor problems. Overall I found the quality of parts, the detail, etc. on par with the Eastern Express/UM/Roden offerings: not very good, but not bad, either. The detail, in general, is good; certainly not soft, but don’t expect DML quality. There is very little flash. The model could use some extra detailing; one of the things I would have liked to do was to replace the periscope covers with photo etched ones. (They are simple molded-on blocks. Armory produces excellent quality periscope covers for the King Tiger, which would probably serve well as substitute.) The one thing I really missed is the depiction of the interlocking armor plates on the upper hull. The hull was (to be) originally constructed by welding slabs of armor together, and the points where these armor plates meet should be visible (you can see this on the hull of the Tiger, and Tiger II, for example). It would have been nice to have these details molded onto the hull. It’s possible to carve them out, but I decided not to bother with them. Some parts you will have to create yourself; you will need some wire for the towing cables, for example. (You can get some wire used to hang pictures from art stores.)
The only real problem I found was the engine deck. The grills have several casting imperfections (see photo above), where plastic got into the perforated parts; if you want to open them up, you will have to work very carefully with a very thin scalpel. I attempted, but quickly decided to leave them as they were- did not want to risk the delicate plastic detail. I assume the vehicle would have had screens over the engine deck, just as the Tiger I and Tiger II did; these would have been great additions to the model. (I tried to find aftermarket 1/72 scale Tiger II grille screens, but the only one set I managed to find was sold out everywhere.)
The tracks are flexible, and made out of several segments. The detail is somewhat soft on the inner side; again not a big problem. This solution of segmented flexible tracks is an interesting combination of the link-and-length plastic tracks and the “rubber band” style tracks. It makes it easier to install them, but alignment is a problem – in fact it is kind of a nightmare. A set of PE tracks would have been really nice (although this is a bit too much to ask for this price I admit), or at least some plastic alternatives. All in all, the kit could use some more brass. As for tracks and engine deck grilles I’m happy to report that Armory has came out not long ago with an updated version of this kit, which alleviates all these issues.
Finally, the modeller gets an option of building a “historical” model (whatever it means in this context), or the World of Tanks version of the vehicle (you get the very characteristic muzzle break from the game, and a different engine hatch on the back panel).
Instructions are well done, and easy to follow, but the first part of the build is a bit challenging if you follow them. The hull has to be assembled from multiple parts (as usual in these kits). The issue is that if you follow the instructions, the hull parts will not fit. Once you assembled the “tub” that makes up the lower part of the hull, you are supposed to glue the fenders onto the sides, and finally place the upper part of the hull on top of this. The plastic parts are on the thick side, and the guiding ridges are not perfectly placed onto the fenders. Despite of how small these differences are, they do add up. When you put the lower and the upper part of the hull together, there will be a gap on the front where these two halves should meet.
The best –and quite easy- way to get around this problem is to do some surgery first, and to deviate from the instructions. First, thin the sides of the top part of the hull from the inside a bit (for an easier fit into the grooves molded onto the mudguards). Glue the back panel, the top and the bottom parts together first (parts 1, 24, 35), creating the overall shape of the tank (see photos) without the sides.
This way the top and bottom will touch in the front. This is the time to use some filler to make sure the attachment points on the back and the front are smooth, and there are no seams anywhere.
Sand off the guiding ridges from the side parts (parts 34, 36) of the hull, and glue them in place. Cut away the guiding ridges from the sides of the fenders (parts 23, 25). It is necessary, as they are supposed to go on top of the side panels, locking together with the ridges on those parts, fitting between the two hull halves. Unfortunately there is not enough space. The fenders themselves are not thin enough to fit, but this will not be an issue if you remove these ridges. (It would have been more fortunate if the fenders were made of PE.) Glue the fenders in place, and you are almost finished with the build.
The other issue I had with the kit was that the attachment of the back panel is a bit unfortunate. Usually the top of the hull goes over the back panel, covering it. This follows the original way of construction, and does not break the upper surface with an extra seam. In this kit, however, the back panel is placed behind the top part, creating an extra seam on the top of the hull. This, unfortunately, needs to be eliminated with filler.
The turret has a strange, round shape, which is very uncharacteristic of the usual angular German designs. It is made out of three parts: the main part of the turret (part 2), the frontal bit under the gun mantlet (part 6), and the bottom part, which will not be seen (part 17). This bottom part has two invaginations which should fit with the two little pegs molded onto the smaller, frontal part of the turret, but they are too small for the actual parts. You will have to enlarge them with a scalpel. It’s not a major surgery, and as it will be hidden under the turret, it will not impact on how the model will look. The rest of the kit falls together without any problems whatsoever.
I have finished the model to the point of weathering for this review. A couple of details are missing (the towing lines, for example, as I will need to fashion one later). Photos of the finished model will be posted in the World of Tanks campaign forum.
I’ve given the tank an uniform German grey color, before attaching all the equipment, tools, etc to the hull.
At this point I kind of lost my motivation to go ahead. I had other projects, and I felt a bit stalled; I was not sure what direction I would like to take the model.
After spending a year in a box (I’ve moved to London, I’ve had other worries) I dusted the Lowe off, and gave a hard thought of what sort of a paintjob I wanted to give it. I settled with the octopus-pattern, which I’ve seen on some fictional 1946 designs. The build stalled even further as I had no idea how to achieve this finish…
The next breakthrough was when I spotted a punch set in a charity shop; I managed to make little rings out of masking tape. They were not exactly good, but I went ahead, nevertheless as I wanted to get the painting over with.
The results were disappointing to say the least. The masking tape rings were not good enough, and I’ve used Mig’s paints for the first time without reading about them. I assumed they are to be used the same manner as Tamiya paints; well, I was wrong. Nevertheless at this point all I saw was that the paint behaved weirdly, and I really, really hated it. (Since then I actually learned to use it properly.)
The other thing I’ve failed to consider in my rush to finish the build was the scale effect: the model had a really bad, very strong contrast. (The colors should have been “toned down” in this scale.) Needless to say I went on working on more successful projects; nobody likes to be reminded of mucking things up.
The next step -after standing like this in my “half-finished” box, I’ve decided to give it a winter whitewash; to use the model for practising -and to finish it finally; and this I did. I’ve covered the Lowe with dullcoat, and used Tamiya white in several light, irregular layers. About 30 minutes later I’ve brought out my ammonia-containing cleaning product, and proceeded to do some practice on the Windex chipping method. This relies on the fact that ammonia dissolves Tamiya paints, and by preparing a 2-3% solution you can carefully remove some of it with a brush. (It’s a process that can be controlled surprisingly well.) It creates much subtler chips than chipping solutions/hairspray technique.
Once the whitewash was on and made look worn, I was in the finish. The model finally looked like a proper model, all past mistakes corrected or hidden away, and even the octopus camo pattern looked good under the whitewash. The emotional roller-coaster was high again. Some white pigments (chalk ground up) in water was used on the fenders and the back of the engine compartment to simulate accumulated snow.
Since it was a winter vehicle I wanted to make it looked dirtied up. Winter slush is dark, almost black. I’ve used oil paints as a slurry, and to make it look even dirtier and disgusting I’ve put some green in the mixture as well. I’ve used MiniArt’s painting guide to the SU-122 as an inspiration: the winter camo (“Rudolph, the red topped SPG”) option is quite dirty and covered in this dark, blackish much.
I dabbed the oils on using a large brush, and used a clean, wet brush to “wash back”, and remove the excess from the top part of the hull, and other regions where I judged the dirt to be too much. The brush then -since it had some pigments trapped in it already- was dabbed onto the turret and other “lightly” soiled areas.
Essentially this was it. The moral of this story is essentially this: despite of all my efforts to mess it up, I managed to make something resembling a presentable tank out of this model.
I’ve decided to do some experiments with pigments and different media used to fix them. I was curious if there was a difference between the different solvents in regards to the effect they have on the look of the pigments, on the color, and on the grip. (Many times we add pigments, then rub/brush off the excess to create a worn, dirty look.) I used a spare piece of fender with Tamiya flat green painted over white enamel base.
I’ve used Mig’s earth colored pigment, and the following solvents (the term is inaccurate, since they do not actually dissolve pigments, but there you go):
Revell Enamel Thinner
Mig Ammo pigment fixer applied to pigments
Mig Ammo pigment fixer and pigments pre-mixed, and applied after
I mixed the pigments with the solvents, then brushed the mixture on. It was let to dry for a day.
In the case of organic solvents the pigments were simply carried onto the surface by the liquid; in all three cases the pigment particles remained visibly separated from the solvent phase. In case of water a slurry-like suspension was created.
Slightly darker color; weird whitish byproduct.
Flat color, no discoloration.
Same as white spirit.
A much more uniform effect (the mixture resembled a muddy slurry), with some discoloration. (Apologies for the mismatching font type.)
On the left-hand side I added the pigments dry, and then used the fixer. On the right hand side I mixed the two together, just like in the previous cases, and applied this mixture to the surface. The effect is similar. The color of the pigment darkened somewhat.
It is important to see how well the pigments adhere to the surface with the different solvents, so I used a relatively stiff brush (and my thumb) to rub some of it off.
After some gentle rubbing, here are the results.
The enamel thinner did leave some of the pigments fixed to the surface. The darker color is still evident.
White spirit, Zest it and water had similar effects: majority of the pigments were rubbed off, but some remained leaving a nice, realistic dirty look. Most of the pigments stayed between the small details, where they were protected, but some acted as a filter on the flat surface as well.
The pigment fixer -not surprisingly- fixed the pigments much better. When rubbed, however, it came off in chunks, as you can see on the right side.
In conclusion: if you plan to manipulate pigments, do not use pigment fixers as a carrier medium; apply it only after you are finished. Otherwise the choice of solvent is only dependent on you, and what the underlying paint can tolerate. (Obviously enamels would not be very stable if you used white spirit.)